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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Top Hand Torque


Posted by: grc () on Fri Sep 15 08:59:30 2000


Crazy-
> > > I would echo what Jack says with regard to the way hitting is often taught in fastpitch softball.Girls are often instructed in the 1-2-3 method or the "two-piece swing" and unless they interpret these instructions in a very unusual way,the result is not top hand torque at initiation.In fact,this is usually a recipe for assuring that the swing is NOT started on plane and therefore is a suboptimal swing.
> > >
> > > The typical teaching is to 1- stride to a balanced position-that's OK
> >
> > I still don't see it. Do I pull back with the top hand as part of the
> > load up, and then release it as I swing. or do I pull back throughout to contact. What?
>
> Larry et al-
> This is detail(lots of) from personal experience.Sometimes details are good,sometimes useless.See what you think,I think it's important in using video analysis to assess/teach.
>
> It's a good idea to try to see it(tophand torque),so I would look at a couple of the more exagerrated practitioners and see if you see what I see.Two of the more dramatic practitioners are Bonds and Sosa.They both exhibit "preswing torque".Look at them in frame by frame and slowmo.You still have to look carefully even at 30 fr/sec.Sammy has an exaggerated stride(including click back),Barry has a minimal stride,but both start turning the bat before the shoulders start(initiation of swing defined as when shoulder turn forward starts as result of the "go" decision).
>
> Let me describe a typical Sammy swing as a next step.Then look at clips of Sammy and others and see what you think.He starts with an open stance.Shortly after the pitcher's handbreak,he steps in(click back).This lower body movement is synchronized with the inward turn of the upper body as the lifting part of the stride is in many hitters.
>
> Next he strides forward at or just before the pitcher releases the pitch.The arms load the hands up and in behind the head as the stride goes forward-"walking away from the hands" as many do (contrary to the opinion of some here).
>
> As the stride foot touches first on the toe and then the heel,the bat begins its forward turn with the bottom hand relatively fixed at the armpit and the top hand pulling the bat back assisted by the dropping of the back elbow.This turning is BEFORE initiation.About the earliest he will start shoulder turn is just after the front heel comes down.If he has to wait on the pitch there will be additional delay by flexing of the front knee before initiation.One way to look for torque and initiation is to watch the hands.The bat will start to turn before the bottom hand starts forward(preswing torque)then the bottom hand will start forward as it is pulled by the shoulder(initiation).
> So that's one way you can see it.You can also try it yourself and video it,then look.I don't know exactly how it feels to others.To me it feels like a light pressure in the top hand fingers that pull back on the handle of the bat as the back elbow is dropping.Each swing begins and proceeds this way until initiation(which FEELS like the hips and shoulders turning together even though the hip turn-and turning of the bat- has started as part of the consistent preswing motion.As Jack says,things are pretty much on autopilot after launch.On the inside pitch there is the feeling of the front shoulder pulling the bottom hand back at contact and on the outside pitch there is more feeling of the top hand being driven through the ball,but in either case it feels more like the bat is doing the work and the hands are going along for a ride on the well hit ones. tom.guerry.....i have reviewed my sosa clips & have a few questions....(1) what exactly do you mean by sosa "steps in (click back)?.....(2) "As the stride foot touches first on the toe and then the heel,the bat begins its forward turn with the bottom hand relatively fixed at the armpit and the top hand pulling the bat back assisted by the dropping of the back elbow "....for the first time i now think i may see the connection between top hand torque & the high elbow.....i sometimes have a hard time even "mentally" pulling the top hand toward the catcher...afterall, that is contrary to one's natural instinct to make movements in the direction of the target, not in the opposite direction....but you seem to be saying that the high elbow coming down will facilitate this movement toward the catcher....is that correct?.....(3) "This turning is BEFORE initiation.".....at exactly what point in the swing is "initiation?....and also, am i correct in inferring that if hitter decides no-swing that he still will have started the knob of the bat toward the catcher?......(4)after studying many of the clips (not only sosa but many of the others), i have noticed the following: just as i have always observed in the past, many of the hitters' back elbow is at about 45 degrees (half way between vertical & horizontal) in the STANCE as well as the LAUNCH POSITION.....but now i have observed something else: with many of these hitters, between stance & launch, for a split second their back elbow indeed raises to horizontal ("chicken wing)....have you made the same observations & can this be tied in with the top hand torque theory?.........your response would be greatly appreciated........respectfully, grc.....


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