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Re: Re: Re: THT debate, Pro Scout +


Posted by: Michael James () on Sun Oct 31 16:38:54 2004


Interesting stuff guys but still unanswered responses on identifying specifics in THT.
> > > Yeah there is a lot of questions here but that is only because many questions still remain on THT that none of you have yet to definetively answer.
> > >
> > > This response from Bert in my reference to TV announcers discussing Bellhorn’s improved swing:
> > >
> > > “And don't talk about the TV commentators not mentioning tht. These commentators are from the ‘old school’ (linear), they played in another era before Jack came along.”
> > >
> > > Bert- the announcers were sharing the feedback they received from and were giving credit to, the Red Sox hitting coach who is from “TODAY’S” era. That coach didn’t mention THT in helping Bellhorn with creating more power in his swing? That coach of the “current” 2004 World Champs only stated he taught Bellhorn to bring his hands back (load up) which as I REPEAT…any player can do without necessarily applying THT. You nor anyone else on this site can argue that the act/movement of bringing the hands back “can be” accomplished by means other than THT. So the question remains?
> > > What do you, Marty, The Pro Scout or any poster “see” that definitively tells you it is absolutely THT being applied instead of another absolute action?
> > >
> > > From Marty:
> > > “My coach says ‘good top hand torque stops good pitching’.” Please have your coach come on board and explain how THT helps a hitter “outsmart” a pitcher? THT may improve the power of a swing via increased batspeed, but THT in and of itself, does NOT beat better, smarter pitching (period). Proof of that is we know even the poster boys you mention on this site for THT strike out. If a hitter applied absolute THT and still missed the pitch ...why did that happen? Pssst...they got fooled/outsmarted by the pitcher. It had nothing to do with THT.
> > >
> > > From Coach Wills:
> > > “This is a settled issue, at least in my neck of the woods. I don't know who Teacherman or his credentials but in the league I coach in, rotational mechanics such as tht & chp rule. Teacherman, come out to Waco sometime and we'll give you a good demonstration of top hand torque.”
> > >
> > > Coach Wills, forget the demo, tell me what you “see” that absolutely proves “hands coming back and hands staying back” is ONLY from THT being applied and NOT some other action that can demo the same thing? If you can’t come back and state your case then ”nothing is settled on THT”. Rotational mechanics are settled as the best mechanics for a swing and you should have stopped there.
> > >
> > > Ralph- do your Pro MLB teams/coaches specifically ask that you look for prospects demonstrating THT or do they simply stress the importance of batspeed and rotational mechanics.
> > > Because you can “see” CHP, and proper rotational mechanics and NOT know it is being applied by THT. Yes, we have “heard” from you as a pro scout but you have not demonstrated as a Pro Scout how you “see” THT is being applied by your prospects? You believing increased batspeed is generated via THT/BHT is your prerogative. Nobody owes you or Jack an apology for their prerogative. You didn’t convince me via your response that it is an absolute you can report on, only that you believe THT is the cause of great batspeed. Maybe you can copy & paste to this site some of your written scout evals to show us where you substantiate and evaluate that THT is being applied by one of your prospects. Can your eval be fool proof to ensure what you believe isn’t really some other action other than THT?
> > >
> > > Hey guys, if THT is that well know in MLB coaching circles why aren't we lay folks involved in baseball hearing about it except on this site? Why the hush hush? Why wouldn't announcers and Hitting coaches mention it if it out there all over the profession?
> > >
> > > Again, name one, two, ANY MLB Hitting instructors (NOT SCOUTS who believe in it but have yet to define how they see it either) but tell me/us the ACTUAL Pro MLB coaches who are teaching and using the phrase THT and its principles to support your stances. If and when you name these MLB coaches that are telling their scouts to “look for THT” prospects, please have them also provide “their” definitive to demonstrate they “see” THT being applied. Let them answer for me the absolutes they “see” to endorse THT is the mechanic, and, that it is not some other action that separates the top half from bottom half and yes, the great hitters from the average hitters.
> > >
> > > If any of you agree it is more “feel than see” then how can you come on this site and state so emphatically that Pujols, Rolen and apparently the entire Cardinal team either forgot or failed to use THT? Were you "feeling" their swings?
> > >
> > > Beating a dead horse? Broken record?
> > > Maybe but...You can pull up any number of post on this site where Jack and or one of you can pinpoint a proper mechanic or flaw we can “see”. I.E. elbow in the slot, palms up/down on contact, flexion/extension of arms legs, front side firm up, heel drop etc.. These are all movements we can “see” and thus draw a conclusion from. None of you seem to be able to verbally do the same with THT. Just saying the hands are coming back does not prove THT is the cause. Yes, it can be one way to bring the top half back but is it the ONLY way? Yes or No?
> > >
> > > When you can finally provide a visual we can see with THT to prove it is the only way then and only then will all of you THT proponents, be able to move away from this argument and “conclusively” promote THT. We will then all be able to say “see it...there it is...right there!”
> > >
> > > Until then I find it ridiculous to ask and expect an apology just because someone else doesn't believe in the same theory that you do.
> > >
>
> >
> > Jim, I won't speak for the other scouts, but I, as a scout and hitting instructor for an American League team can speak for myself and the organization I represent. It's quite simple: we look for hitters with power and we view rotational mechanics such as top hand torque and the circular hand path as the key components of rotational mechanics.
> > I will not debate the pros and cons (if any "cons" exist) of these principles because I work for my organization, not for you. Now, if you ever get signed by my organization and our paths cross, certainly I will do my job to provide you with quality instruction on how to execute rotational principles.
> > The question may arise as to why a scout would even visit an internet site. Again, speaking for myself only, I encounter many hitters who have potential. They have survived throughout high school and college on linear mechanics. My job is to prepare them for the Major Leagues (this is where top hand torque, bottom hand torque and circular hand path come in).Part of me understanding where these misguided hitters acquired these hitting deficiencies involves me needing to research the sources of these misguided principles (throw hands to ball, knob to ball, fence drill and other linear notions). Of course,some of these sources happen to be on the internet.
> > My suggestion to you is that if your agenda is to seek "truth" the direction of the future of pro hitters is top hand torque, circular hand path, etc. Of course, is your agenda is to defend linear principles & want to pick a fight with a "pro-rotationist", I don't get paid by you or anyone else to do that, I get paid to find, sign and instruct prospects.
> -------------------------------------
> Mr. James,
>
> My agenda is fairly simple and as others have done, you failed to address (and as a scout/instructor no less), how do you know what you are "seeing" that brings the hands back is THT and not another action such as scap loading or a simple back shoulder shrug action?
>
> I don't know where you summised I am anti-rotational and a linear proponent. I made it abundantly clear rotation is the Pro way.
> Just as it is equally clear that a can view a rotational swing with CHP, hips leading hands etc., minus any THT but with hands being brought back via another action.
>
> Again, you opted to go off on a tangent, deviated away from answering what, as a Pro Scout/instructor "you" look for that "tells you" the hands coming back is directly because of THT and not some other action.
>
> I have no problem with you or any Pro scout/instructor visiting this site. In fact, it adds credence to what Jack promotes and to the hard work he has done.
>
> ALL I'M ASKING FOR IS FOR SOMEONE LIKE YOU TO TELL ME WHY? HOW? WHAT? DO YOU LOOK FOR TO DETERMINE THAT THT IS IN EFFECT AND NOT JUST A "BELIEF" THAT THT IS AN ABSOLUTE IN YOUR VIEW OF PROPER ROTATIONAL MECHANICS.
>
> You also didn't answer the simple question I posed:
> THT can be 1 way to bring the top half back but is it the ONLY way? Yes or No?
>
> Here is a new question:
>
> Would you Mr. James or any reader describe Ichiro as linear or rotational?
>

Jim, I thought I made myself clear but I'll try again.My job is to find, sign and instruct prospects. My job is not to engage in evaluations of various hitting principles. That job is for the participants of this board. I did feel compelled , though to pass along my advice, namely that top hand torque and circular hand path mechanics is what major league scouts are increasingly looking for. If my advice does not apply to you, fine. If it does not apply to anyone, fine. I fave my advice, free of charge, and people can take it or leave it.


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