Posted by: Shawn (mariner0324@yahoo.com) on Sun Mar 26 15:52:29 2006

> > >>> Anyone notice that the old-timers Ruth, Gehrig, Dimaggio, Williams, Mantle, Mays, Aaron all carried their hands low next to their ribs during their stance? I notice during the WBC, Japanese batters tend to keep their hands out front in above home plate. Modern MLB players tend to keep their hands at least shoulder high. If we're to follow Williams and these superstars, shy don't we teach players to start their hands low anymore? <<<
> >
> > Hi Bondo
> >
> > Welcome to the site - Throughout the history of the game, great hitters have taken a stance with their hands in various positions. Some (like A-rod) held their hands high while others had theirs low (like Bonds). That is just a matter of their preference or “style.” The important point to note in their swings is that regardless of where they held their hands in their stance, as they take their stride and prepare to launch the swing, they all bring their hands (up, down or back) to the plane of the swing (the back-shoulder). That is not a matter of style – that is an absolute must to perform a high level swing.
> >
> > I will place below a couple posts from the Archives I wrote on ‘Style vs Absolutes” an a definition of the swing plane.
> >
> > Jack Mankin
> > ##
> >
> > Style vs Absolute
> > Posted by: Jack Mankin (MrBatspeed@aol.com on Thu Feb 13 16:04:42 2003
> >
> > Mikeyd, you stated, -- “I know from watching videos and looking at pictures, Jack, that there is more than one "right" way to swing the bat - and your style is not a cure all and has some definite limitations too.” -- I agree with you that good hitters exhibit many different styles in how they prepare for the swing. As a hitter takes his stance in the box, some will (as you pointed out) have their hands away from their body – some close to the shoulder. Some will have their hands high like A-Rod – some low like Bonds. Some good hitters will stand tall while others like to squat. Some will take longer strides – some soft or no-stride. These are all matters of a batters individual style and my work has not taken a position on whether or not one style has an advantage over another.
> >
> > But once the batter has completed his preparation for the swing and brought the bat to the launch position (is now in the plane of the swing), the “style” time is over. And once the swing is fully initiated, the swing mechanics exhibited by the best hitters are all basically the same (viewed frame-by-frame). The bat speed developed by all swings will be governed by the same mechanical principles. Defining those mechanical principles common to all great hitter’s swings was what my study concentrated on. --- The purpose of all batting mechanics is to apply forces to the bat that will gain maximum acceleration of the bat-head into a predictable arc around toward contact. – Note: Since the purpose of batting mechanics is to accelerate the bat-head, the terms I defined, CHP, BHT and THT are to identify forces acting on the bat.
> >
> > Other than gravity, the two (and only two) forces acting on the bat that cause the bat-head to accelerate into its arc is ‘torque’ (push/pull action supplied through the hands) and transfer of the body’s rotational energy via a ‘circular hand-path’ (CHP). The batter does not have a choice of whether or not to use these forces. The bat speed attained, regardless of who he or she is, baseball or softball, light or heavy bat, will be governed by the quality of the CHP and how much torque energy was supplied to the bat during the swing by the batter’s transfer mechanics.
> >
> > Regardless of the length of the batter’s stride (style), all good hitters will rotate around a stationary axis to generate a quality CHP. -- Regardless of where a great hitter has his hands in his stance (style), his hands will be at the back-shoulder at initiation. I call this “hiding the hands from the pitcher”. -- In order to generate a quality CHP, he will keep the hands back and allow rotation to propel their first movement perpendicular to (not parallel with) the flight of the incoming ball. – All great hitters will have their elbow at their side as they rotate. – All great hitters will have the lead shoulder pulling back toward the catcher at contact (hook in the hand-path). – Those are not style. Those are absolute principles for maximizing bat speed and generating a predicable swing plane .
> >
> > As a great hitter initiates his swing, the bat-head’s first movement is to arc back toward the catcher before his rotation turns and directs his energy around toward contact. It should be obvious that the top-hand could not be pushing ‘forward’ while the bat-head is arcing ‘backward’. Since shoulder rotation has just begun, the force acting on the bat that causes the bat-head to arc back toward the catcher is “torque.” And since the top-hand is moving back with the bat while the bottom-hand is more stationary, I termed this mechanic “Top-Hand Torque.”
> >
> > I think the defining difference between the great hitters and all the rest takes place at (or just before) initiation. Great hitters are pulling back with the top-hand at initiation – all the rest are pushing it forward. --- When a batter pushes the top-hand forward at initiation (99 % of batters), instead of the bat-head arcing back toward the catcher, it slides over and trails behind the hands. --- So THT is not style. It is an absolute for maximizing the torque factor before and during the swing.
> >
> > Mikeyd, great hitters find an elevated back-elbow a more powerful position to apply THT than starting with it low or in the slot.
> >
> > Jack Mankin
> > ##
> >
> > Re: lead arm, elbow
> >
> > Posted by: Jack Mankin (mrbatspeed@aol.com) on Thu Aug 28 23:04:29 2003
> >
> > Question/Comment:
> >
> > >>> First time posting. Followed discussions for couple years. Purchased Final Arc II about three months ago.
> >
> > Situation: HS coach told my son to drive his front elbow "down and in." Now he has a downward bat plane as he makes contact with ball.
> >
> > Question: What is proper position of front elbow in launch position, as back elbow enters slot, and as shoulders turn for contact? Equally important, how do I describe this to me son? Are there any drills that will help him get front arm in right place? <<<
> >
> > Jack Mankin's reply:
> >
> > Hi dmaddox:
> >
> > Think of the plane of the swing as being a flat disc that is tilted down toward the plate so as to intersect the path of the ball in the contact zone. The bat, lead-arm and shoulders should all be in that plane from initiation to contact. You may have the bat more vertical while in your stance, but the bat must drop into the plane of the lead-arm when shoulder rotation begins.
> >
> > Since the shoulders are rotating on a tilted plane (not horizontal to the ground), the back-shoulder will begin (from the inward turn position) higher and rotate to a lower position as the lead-shoulder starts lower and is rotating upward. You should not have to think about lowering the back-shoulder, it should happen automatically as you rotate if your launch position is correct.
> >
> > Keeping the lead-arm (including the elbow) in the plane of the swing is an absolute MUST. That means the lead-elbow MUST always remain pointing into the plane of the swing. If the lead-elbow lowers (or drops) down out of the plane before contact -- the swing is ruined. The wrist will start to roll too soon and the bat-head will come out of the intended plane. This will normally cause inconsistent contact and usually results in weak grounders or pop-ups.
> >
> > Jack Mankin
>
>
> Charlie Lau Sr. conferred for the most part the same absolute that the good if not great hitters got to the launch position when the lead foot hit the ground.

It looked like the Japan hitter followed an old rule in hitting, keep the arms away from the body.

The hands must come into the body as the swing is initiated. Most hitters in the US start with the hands already in, Sosa starts with the hands away from the body.

Just like starting them low, starting them away from the body creates a little triggering mechanism. I forget the name of the old timer but there is a classic clip of a hitter hitching his hands low then brining them up and in.