Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: question for RQL
Posted by: grc (
) on Sat May 19 21:57:31 2001
well, rql, i have yet another idea that might help my son (remember, he throws right/bats left)....he's made some progress in pulling inside pitch to right field instead of inside-outing the ball,,,,we did a lot of work on improving strength/coordination of the weaker, top, left arm....however, he now has developed a tendency for his body to want to try pulling the outside pitch ( he had always naturally hit the inside part of the ball on the outside pitch)...........anyway, without getting into tht, bht, etc, what do you think of this idea as a mental cue: inside pitch, think swinging with the top arm (even though obviously both arms will still be on the bat)....and for outside pitches, think "bottom arm" (because the bottom arm leading the swing is always what had meade him so sucessful with the middle and outside pitch).......i tried this my self and it seems like if i think bottom arm on the inside pitch i will have an inside-out swing, whereas if i think top arm, i will pull....and with the outside pitch, thinking bottom arm will result in leading with bottom arm, but thinking top arm i will end up incorrectly hitting the outside part of the outside pitch........i don't know if this makes sense or not, but at least for me, as i swing, visualizing top arm or bottom arm sort of automatically makes the swing happen the way i described.......but it might be happening only because i want it to happen that way...that's why i seek your unbiased opinion as to how viable this mental imaging option could be.....also for any one else ( i think major dan, for example) who has first hand knowledge of the problems right throwers/left hitters have, i would also appreciate your input....respectfully, grc.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > grc -
> > > > > > I was thinking hard while reading your post, even before you mentioned me. We must be on a parallel course.
> > > > > > AAU season has started. Matt is 13, still not grown very much, but playing and hitting well. His first weekend (4 games) he was 6 for 10, with 4 walks. Two outs were line drives at people. He even pulled a double over the right fielder's head. He must have hit it 250' or more - most likely the longest ball he's hit in a game. He really turned on it. It was a good affirmation of what we worked on this winter.
> > > > > > However, his two bad at-bats were popups to third base trying to go the opposite way. He did also smoke a liner over the shortstop's head so he hasn't lost his opposite field ability. But the popups were of the butt-out-and-reach variety. He seems to get under the ball now going back side on outside pitches, at least sometimes.
> > > > > > Thanks to rql, we've done all the things I've talked about to balance front and back side. His body and swing are more integrated. If anything Charley Lau Jr. would love to say he is too rotational and pulling off the outside pitches. I see him as casting the bat to reach the ball. The cast is pushing the bat under the ball to force the popping up. In a way, it is improper rotation to some extent based on pitch location.
> > > > > > Does that make sense? Any other observations on this type problem?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > grc - I don't know about thinking one arm or the other based on pitch location - not a lot of time to do that, but if it works, keep me posted. Jack suggests Top Hand Torque is the key to hitting the outside pitch. I agree. It allows the timing and movement of the hips and shoulder rotation to adjust and sets the bat plane going opposite field without losing batspeed or casting - if done right. [ in fact, ti works kind of like what you are trying, if you think about it]
> > > > > > I find myself telling Matt to stay on top of the ball. What I want him to avoid is looping under the ball to come back up to hit it. With the ball deeper in the zone, you hit it more in the back part of the swing than on the front upswing. Does that make sense? Any other cues that might work?
> > > > > > rql - did you ever go through this? I have answera for both but I must help my little girl with a school project 1st and [I'll be back]rql. ..I keep getting knocked off line before thread gets posted on site,send me an e mail address if you like at rqlbball23@aol .com and will get it together I have some insight I believe,MD,GRC. GRC,he is inticipating pull and slowly opening up early then tries to pull everything since he has already past his point of contact with his body.He must stay cocked hips and shoulders look away then when he decides it is inside he must find another gear to go to to explode the hips and torque the hands this is where the tight shoulder turn will help the bottom hand torquing and the top hand will come in hard about half way through.be patient look and stay away then react inside at mach speed. GRC,if you think top hand on inside then you may end up slowing shoulder turn and collapsing your front side and also get wrist roll or fingers front and back.However a cue for one may not work for another,find one that works for your son.Mine was look away react in but once I had conquered both I still picked and chose when to use them both.Know yourself and the opponent and what is working good for you now,remember the 4 hole with man on 1st and 1 base holding him on,and know what pitch you can handle.the mental game and the strike zone are very important now.
> >RQL....let me back up and explain how he had always hit the outside pitch sucessfully (but let me add that he tried to hit the inside pitch unsucessfully the same way as the outside pitch).....and please let me know how similarly or differently YOU hit and then i'll come back to go over Part B......assume for a moment an outside pitch.....in launch position he would then draw in his hands towards his body, perhaps 2 inches or so.....(as opposed to top hand torque where the first initial hand movement is headed down & away, well on the way to a circular hand path).......his front elbow would subsequently bend somewhat and then his stronger bottom hand would basically lead the knob back towards the outside part of the plate...in the process the bat was lagging behind so as to create the bat angle in which to contact the ball on the inside part of the ball rather than the outside part of the ball (as a reference point he would be aiming for a spot that was aprox. 1 inch or so to the right of the middle part of the ball).........if he did not use this particular technique (of slightly drawing in the hands and then going "out" again)to create the bat angle needed to hit the outside pitch, the result would be comtacting the outside pitch in the middle or outside part of the ball, resulting in a weak grounder.........so....a slight bringing in of the hands, then leading the hands/bat back towards the outside part of the plate helped create the bat angle needed (aprox. -15 degrees using the front edge of home plate as a reference point)to contact the outside pitch on the inside part of the ball......and he was extrordinairily sucessful at it.............problem: he hit the inside pitch the same way, drawing in of the hands, then going out again....but this created a multitude of problems....there was no physical way for the bat to contact the inside pitch at the ideal fot or 1 1/2 feet in front of home plate....with this swing he would contact the inside pitch at the edge of home plate, and in many cases contacting the ball on the inside part of the ball....result: texas leaguer to opposite field....or...if the ball got in on him even more before contact, he would contact the ball when the bat was still coming down, resulting in a weak grounder to 1b or 2b........all of these observations come from numerous film clips in over 500 plate appearances in competition..........again RQL, Major Dan, i would like to evaluate the possible solutions but first i would like to find out how similar or unsimilar your experiences were.....respectfully, grc...... GRC,yes this sounds similar to my way of hitting growing up.I was suppose to knock the pitcher down each time so this is how I created my swing.However I had no problem hitting the back of the ball to drive it right at the pitcher.I learned to get back off the plate a little allowing myself more room to get some inside pitches and still handle them up the middle.Never any pull power because even though I may get my bat out front some,there was a point where my hips and shoulders stopped turning[a conditioned response] and I would only hit grounders to 2nd.Whether it was pulling down to long with stronger lead hand or maybe wrist roll caused by the bottom hand notpulling enough for correct torque and lift or both I'm not sure but they are the culprit of not pulling well.I believe the doubles power I had away came from tht but not how Jack has described of pulling it.Rather using torque early in the swing right after my short radius shoulder turn to hit it back over the plate.If I can suggest the hips go where the ball goes in the way I hit,hips to short ball to opp.field,hips almost to pitcher ball up the middle but once I learned to pull they had to come all the way towards the pitcher or just past him,along with the shoulders and my hands would pop the bat or torque it just before impact.Much of this was unclear to me when I first came to the site but as I studied it and practiced off the tee,and studied old espn footage it made since to me.I knew the power in my hips did not jump to my hands and my forearms as strong as they were did not hit the ball nearly 500'.
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