Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whip and Flail

Posted by: Mark H. () on Mon Mar 25 00:15:56 2002

Hi Major Dan
> > > >
> > > > I have read “Volume 10. Physics 208” before. The first 2 paragraphs below are taken from “Volume 10 of Physics 208”
> > > > ##
> > > > Whip Action
> > > >
> > > > “The flicking of a towel in the shower room is a long tradition to make a very high speed hit that stings. The buggy whip tip gets so fast that the tip exceeds the speed of sound and makes a sonic boom! In our PoS book, we have a rather good discussion of the physics of fly casting by Robson, on p 304. The basic principles of the physics of the whip can be found here.”
> > > >
> > > > Whip action as applied to the golf or baseball strike.
> > > >
> > > > In the golf swing and the baseball swing, a rather similar thing happens. The club or bat trails the hand so that the hand. With the reduced moment of inertia, the hands driven by the large muscles of the legs, hips and trunk obtain a larger velocity. When the hands are slowed down, the energy stored in the entire system is transmitted to the smaller mass segmenets until the club [bat] take on most of the kinetic energy and since they are less massive, they have a high velocity.”
> > > > ##
> > > >
> > > > This is the same concept described by Professor Adair in his book, “The Physics of Baseball” (he may have authored this article as well). It contends that it is the transfer of "kinetic" energy (energy stored in the entire system) that accelerates the bat-head as the hands slow down. Adair believes the “system” developed the kinetic energy from the “linear” movement of the batter’s mass. He stated that the body moving forward about 18 inches at 6 or 8 mph develops the kinetic energy that powers the swing.
> > > >
> > > > I wrote Professor Adair that my study of the swing found the forward movement of the body ceases before the initiation of the swing. That during the actual swing, the body rotates around a stationary axis, and it was the transfer of the body’s rotational momentum that accelerates the bat by the angular displacement of the hand-path and torque applied (not the linear acceleration of the hands). --- After a few unflattering comments, he ended his reply by writing; “I found your essay on batting quite unpersuasive even as it was non-quantitative. And any batter who would use your “stationary axis” model, taken literally, could not hit a ball past second base.” --- Adair also discounts torque (push/pull of hands) as a factor in generating bat speed.
> > > >
> > > > You can generate get a good “snap” with a towel (whip effect) from the quick linear extension of the hands. But you will not get those results with a stiff bat. That is what I proved with the test shown in the instructional video with the “steering wheel knob” attached to the bat. – There are no smaller mass segmenets in a bat like in a towel or whip – in fact, a bat’s mass increases down its “stiff” length.
> > > >
> > > > Jack Mankin
> > > >
> > > > hi, jack...i think you are right...."no smaller mass segments in a bat" means needing something else to add to bat acceleration...and that "something else" needed is full hip/shoulder rotation....and this would apply to inside and to a somewhat lesser extent middle pitches.....
> > >
> > > however....
> > >
> > > for an outside pitch, this "something else", full hip/shoulder rotation is not possible.....back to our original dialog:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > thanks for the response, jack.....you said " driving or popping the hips has no effect on accelerating the bat-head unless that hip action causes the shoulders to move or rotate."
> > > >
> > > > and i said "you just described exactly why hitting the outside pitch effectively requires going "linear"....
> > > >
> > > > my point was to make a connection between what you said and what i have been saying....we could combine our two statements and say something like this: on an outside pitch , since there is/should be less hip rotation, there is/should be less shoulder rotation....therefore, therefore the hips have less effect on accelerating the bathead......so, if the hips provide less bathead acceleration, what else can provide bathead acceleration except by going "linear"?
> > > >
> > > > now, mind you, i'm not suggesting that going "linear" provides AS MUCH bathead accelearation on an outside pitch vs. an inside pitch....i'm simply saying that if you acknowledge the fact (which i have established time and again)that you don't have full hip/shoulder rotation on an outside pitch, then the only effective way to hit an outside pitch is by going "linear"......
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> >
> > Your if/then scenario seems unconnected by supporting logic. Perhaps you could fill in the gaps?
> >
> > Mark H.
>
> see previous posts over the last 2 years

Seems to me Jack and others could answer the same way.

Mark H.

Followups:
 Whip and Flail grc [ Mon Mar 25 07:17:02 2002 ] Whip and Flail Mark H. [ Mon Mar 25 12:57:56 2002 ] Whip and Flail grc [ Mon Mar 25 18:42:47 2002 ] Whip and Flail Mark H. [ Mon Mar 25 20:39:55 2002 ] Re: Whip and Flail grc [ Tue Mar 26 07:43:49 2002 ] Re: Re: Whip and Flail tolson [ Wed Mar 27 05:57:58 2002 ] Re: Re: Whip and Flail Mark H. [ Tue Mar 26 10:23:05 2002 ]

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