Bat Speed -- Baseball Hitting Forum

Have been reading and reviewing Jack’s material for a month, and picked up the video today. I’ve read about a dozen books on baseball and hitting from the best coaches in the sport. All teach “linear” hitting theory. I like what I’ve seen from Jack’s “rotational” hitting theory. His experience seems to mirror what Tom House has done with the “science” of pitching. In view of what I’ve read, coached, and seen in practice, however, I still have a few (rhetorical) questions.
>
> · Rotational hitting mechanics minimizes the hands and wrists. They “go along for the ride”, because most of the power and speed builds from the backwards rotation of the top hand, and forward rotation of the shoulders and hips around the axis of the spin. The point is made that the wrists and forearms are smallest muscle group involved, and linear mechanics depends on them to accelerate the bat head. Counterpoint: Large muscle groups are slower muscle groups. The hands, wrists, and forearms can accelerate quicker because they are short-fiber muscles.
>
> · Acceleration of the bat head involves the top hand torquing back towards the catcher. The bat head also drops a bit causing the hands to adopt a circular motion (i.e. backwards and downwards), with benefits described in Jack’s documentation. Counterpoints: Won’t a properly executed “inward turn” (re: Dusty Baker’s book “You can Teach Hitting”, and others) cause the hands to adopt a similar circular motion as the hands move from their starting point (linear: just above the right shoulder seam (RH batter) about 4 inches), backwards (with the body as it turns), and then forward (as the hands accelerate forward, “bottom of the bat on the ball”, etc.)? Won’t dropping the bat hand backwards start the long-path “Little League” swing that “inside-out” instructors recommend avoiding? The “shortest-path” inside-out swing is intended to develop a quicker bat, by simply eliminating 1/3 of the bat travel of a long “shoulder-to-shoulder” outside-in type swing. Am I missing something in the translation, or does rotational mechanics create sufficient acceleration to compensate for, and overcome, the negative effects of the long-path swing?
>
> · What drills are available to teach rotational hitting theory to a well trained, and very skeptical 13-14 yr group of Pony hitters? My goal is to teach my 13 yr old daughter (only girl playing boys-baseball for miles around, as far as I can tell) rotational mechanics, and let her success prove the point to the young gentlemen on her team (including her older brother). I have spent a couple of years mastering “linear” hitting theory, via clinics and several good books (the best of which is Dusty Bakers book). I have two-dozen different, specific drills and plenty of equipment to correct problems, and reinforce good hitting techniques, for linear theory hitting. I’ve been able to work with hitters 15 minutes before a game, identify a problem, and help them start a hitting streak that night. (Ok, so it’s a rare occurrence. But when this happens, it keeps coaches coming back for more….). For rotational theory, I have…nothing. Jack’s video is on its way, so that my help. Anything else in the way of progressive, selective drills that might be available would be appreciated.
>
>
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> This is not a “challenge” to Jack’s methods; so for the die-hard hitting purists out there, don’t get your back up. I have enough “egos” to deal with in my own local league. I’m writing here to listen and learn, and pick up what I can to help kids over the next 5-6 weeks of the remaining season. My own kids are both under 100 lbs, they’re seeing pitching 75mph and up with good curve balls for the first time, and they need some serious help putting the wood (actually, metal) on the ball. I am also coaching their teammates, a dozen other very-talented young men who I care about as much as my own, and I need to “get it right” when I coach them.
>
> Most of all, I need to be able to “sell” this to them. There is no more superstitious, conservative, “status quo” group of people in the world than baseball folks. It might take a miracle to convince some of them, say, like a 13 yr old, 75 lb girl “yarding” a few balls (or better yet, of course, hitting for average and RBIs).

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Re: Re: Hitting questions (from a [ Tue Apr 16 22:50:05 2002 ]
Re: Re: Hitting questions (from a Daniel [ Tue Apr 16 11:05:36 2002 ]

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> Have been reading and reviewing Jack’s material for a month, and picked up the video today.  I’ve read about a dozen books on baseball and hitting from the best coaches in the sport.  All teach “linear” hitting theory.  I like what I’ve seen from Jack’s “rotational” hitting theory.   His experience seems to mirror what Tom House has done with the “science” of pitching.   In view of what I’ve read, coached, and seen in practice, however, I still have a few (rhetorical) questions.
> > 
> > ·	Rotational hitting mechanics minimizes the hands and wrists.  They “go along for the ride”, because most of the power and speed builds from the backwards rotation of the top hand, and forward rotation of the shoulders and hips around the axis of the spin.   The point is made that the wrists and forearms are smallest muscle group involved, and linear mechanics depends on them to accelerate the bat head.   Counterpoint:  Large muscle groups are slower muscle groups.  The hands, wrists, and forearms can accelerate quicker because they are short-fiber muscles.
> > 
> > ·	Acceleration of the bat head involves the top hand torquing back towards the catcher.  The bat head also drops a bit causing the hands to adopt a circular motion (i.e. backwards and downwards), with benefits described in Jack’s documentation.  Counterpoints:  Won’t a properly executed “inward turn” (re: Dusty Baker’s book “You can Teach Hitting”, and others) cause the hands to adopt a similar circular motion as the hands move from their starting point (linear: just above the right shoulder seam (RH batter) about  4 inches), backwards (with the body as it turns), and then forward (as the hands accelerate forward, “bottom of the bat on the ball”, etc.)?  Won’t dropping the bat hand backwards start the long-path “Little League” swing that “inside-out” instructors recommend avoiding?  The “shortest-path” inside-out swing is intended to develop a quicker bat, by simply eliminating 1/3 of the bat travel of a long “shoulder-to-shoulder” outside-in type swing.   Am I missing something in the translation, or does rotational mechanics create sufficient acceleration to compensate for, and overcome, the negative effects of the long-path swing?
> > 
> > ·	What drills are available to teach rotational hitting theory to a well trained, and very skeptical 13-14 yr group of Pony hitters?  My goal is to teach my 13 yr old daughter (only girl playing boys-baseball for miles around, as far as I can tell) rotational mechanics, and let her success prove the point to the young gentlemen on her team (including her older brother).   I have spent a couple of years mastering “linear” hitting theory, via clinics and several good books (the best of which is Dusty Bakers book).  I have two-dozen different, specific drills and plenty of equipment to correct problems, and reinforce good hitting techniques, for linear theory hitting.  I’ve been able to work with hitters 15 minutes before a game, identify a problem, and help them start a hitting streak that night.  (Ok, so it’s a rare occurrence.  But when this happens, it keeps coaches coming back for more….).   For rotational theory, I have…nothing.    Jack’s video is on its way, so that my help.  Anything else in the way of progressive, selective drills that might be available would be appreciated. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > This is not a “challenge” to Jack’s methods; so for the die-hard hitting purists out there, don’t get your back up.  I have enough “egos” to deal with in my own local league.   I’m writing here to listen and learn, and pick up what I can to help kids over the next 5-6 weeks of the remaining season.  My own kids are both under 100 lbs, they’re seeing pitching 75mph and up with good curve balls for the first time, and they need some serious help putting the wood (actually, metal) on the ball.  I am also coaching their teammates, a dozen other very-talented young men who I care about as much as my own, and I need to “get it right” when I coach them.  
> > 
> > Most of all, I need to be able to “sell” this to them.  There is no more superstitious, conservative, “status quo” group of people in the world than baseball folks.  It might take a miracle to convince some of them, say, like a 13 yr old, 75 lb girl “yarding” a few balls (or better yet, of course, hitting for average and RBIs).
> 
> <<hi swb,I will try to touch on a couple of points.1Yes the slower muscles of the hips and shoulders do compensate to swing the bat faster,the barrel is building speed on the long trip around and thus can get to contact faster do to much greater speed than the shorter slower swing of linear,proved by frames of film in time lapse.personally don't get so caught up with the top hand pulling back as the rear elbow coming to the rear rib cage which well keep the rear arm in the L and connected.The LL swing comes from letting the hands stay behind the elbow which causes the big loop[a no no.]Drills ,get a tire on a tree and hit against it and use small bat 1 arm[ lead arm]  drills using the body to pull it around not disconnecting arm and pushing it out.more later

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