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Re: tom:

Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Wed May 8 08:42:31 2002

> tom...i assume that was you....
> i find two things you said especially interesting....
> (1)"The bat tip doesn't arc out and then come back to the body before contact."..........so when does the tip of the bat arc out?....or does the tip of the bat arc out at all?.....it would seem to me that even with the most severe inside-out swing the bat tip arcs out & then in....please help me out with this one....
> (2)"The thing that really gets the bat head out fast as torso turn stops is the "L" coming out of the back elbow".....for a point of reference, let's call the point where the "L" starts coming out the the back elbow (lag position/elbow in the slot?) as point A...let's call point C the point if you believed the top arm does fully extend, even on an inside pitch.....let's call point B the point where the back arm stops extending (no longer an "L" but not extended)....now, if i understand you and jack correctly, the back elbow is not going to fully extend (is pitch)..........so contact is at hypothetical point B, not point C...and there's not much "room"/time between point A and point B for the bathead to get "out fast".....your statement seems to contradict some major tennats of THT....
> respectfully, grc....

That was my post.

Lots of stuff here.

1)Theoretically as in the post I did sign above in answer to Dick,you want the quickest swing poosible over the shortest path(sweetspot from launch to contact)aimed at making contact perpendicular to the path of the pitch.If you succeeded and looked at video,you would make contact at the point where the bat tip was pretty much arced as far out as it is going to get(assuming the pitch comes in at not much of an angle-maybe the angle starts to get significant with a long,tall sidearmer like the big unit).Early and you pull,late and you hit opposite field.

As far as when the bat tip arcs out,if you think of the swing as a series of arcs as described by Jack,the hands arc around first,then the bat head.The point around which the bat handle is turning stays along the arc of the handpath and the bathead is swung out by ball on string type forces.The bathead arcs out as the hands arc in.Ideally(contact perpendicular) the bathead starts arcing in only after contact.

2)When does the "L" come out? Most reliable indicator is the second wave of reactive torque turning the back foot.First wave of reactive torque is back toe drag as the hips decelerate and the torso energizes and turns beginning to drive the "final arc"-the arc of the bathead-ball onstring as mentioned before.For there to be efficient transfer of enegy,there need to be good "transfer mechanics" which mean that there has to be tight connection(probably requiring asymmetric scapula loading by the time torso turn starts as opposed to symmetric scapula loading in the overhand throw),and a circular handpath.When the "L" comes out of the back arm,another wave of reactive torque turns the back foot(this is analagous to the point in the overhand throw when,after torso turn has layed back the throwing arm,the arm catapults forward from external to internal rotation).What this usually means is that for the outside pitch,the "L" comes out of the back arm enough so that the bat is lined up with the front arm at contact.The front upper arm should NOT have casted away from the torso before contact.Extension in the sense of the "power V" happens after contact when the front upper arm casts.For a nice video see


For the middle in location/bht swing,the "L" is still in the elbow,the bat is not yet lined up with the front arm at contact,and there is early and relatively prolonged torso turn before contact,aided by a fast handpath arc by keeping the hands in tight and hooking the handpath in fromt of the body-see Rose clip.

For outside location there is less toros turn under higher load conditions.To compensate for less torso turn,the torso enegy must buildup,then deplete more rapidly.This is done by swinging the bat head out further/faster as the "L" comes out of the back elbow before contact.Once the bat is almost lined up with the front arm,it may be possible to squeeze the last bit of energy out of the torso nearky stopping it by allowing some flex out of the front elbow which could slightly widen the handpath arc,however,this must be done while keeping the front upper arm tight against the torso.At this point with the bat turned almost in line with the front arm and with maintenance of good front arm connection,transfer appears to remain efficient even though this flex comes out of the front elbow.This is,however, a "longer" swing than turning quickly on the middle in ball with bht.

Where would the A,B,C be given this info?


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