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Re: Re: Re: torque creation

Posted by: Ronnie (rwynn@comsouth.net) on Sun Jan 9 18:04:18 2011

> > > Hallo guys,
> > > I have a question about the handle torque. I know it's a push-pull action of the hands. however I see most hitters having their hands not actually moving in comparison to the shoulders. the top hand is not actually pulled back it stays at the same distance in relation to the back shoulder.
> > >
> > > but still there are torquing forces on the handle.
> > >
> > > could it be that the rotation of the shoulders and elbows create that torque without the hands moving independently? because I don't see a lot of independent hand movement the swing seems to be "connected" to the back shoulder.
> > >
> > > there are also theories out that the torque comes from rotation of the forearms around it's axis. the top hand supinates at initiation which causes the barrel to be turned to the catcher without the hand acutally moving back in comparison to the shoulder. so the flattening of the hands is the torque.
> > >
> > > which one is correct?
> >
> > Hi Dominik,
> > This is the best question I have seen in a long time!
> > 1st the hands are not moving in relationship to the shoulders, the hands are pulling against each other....
> > 2nd the top hand is pulling back as the bottom hand is pulling forward while staying connected to shoulder rotation......
> > Jack's quote "This is not easy to do but well worth the effort"; add to that - it is hard to see even on video unless you do what Jack did with frame by frame marking the position of each hand....although movement of the hands are minimal, it causes greater torque than not doing it.
> > This is a question that I am sure creates controversy because most will not see this even on video.....then there are those that will deny what they are seeing.....I was fortunate enough to see this in my sons swing when he make a jump from hitting 300 foot line drives to hitting 370 feet line drives that never get more than 15 feet off the ground. By my calculations it added about 25% to bat speed without changing any mechanics other than using THT ,Top Hand Torque. I personally believe this is the hardest thing to teach and or learn. Best Wishes!
> > So you know, I believe the forearm roll you mention is a by product of this........therefore you can see it....teaching it is something else. Ronnie
> Ronnie,
> I agree this is the most difficult portion of rotational hitting to teach. First, it is difficult to convince a hitter that once he is in the pre-launch, loaded postion, that pulling downward/backward on the top hand towards the catchers head will place the bat in the hitting zone faster than anything else. It starts the circular HM. Now, when does the hitters bottom hand begin to torgue or flex? When does the top hand(after being pulled backward to start the CHM) begin to push or punch without rolling over AND without disconnecting from the body? This is difficult to coach and understand as a hitter. The forces are working opposite from traditional thought. Throw a gut punch but don't extend your arm from your body. Flex your bottom wrist towards the 3rd baseman(RH)/1st baseman(LH) but don't extend your forearm. Pull the top hand opposite of the direction of the pitch that you are trying to hit. If there was ever a need for a sequential coaching diagram or point-to-point body animation, this portion of the rotational mechanic requires it. I use verbal commands such as; pull the gear shifter to initiate the top hand pull towards the catchers head concurrent with stepping on the throttle to drop the heel of the front foot to start the bottom hips.
> If I have anything stated inaccurately, please provide feedback. If not, Jack, please contribute your thoughts on this phase of the process. Thanks for a great site.

You are right about going against traditional thought. I have been at odds with many of my sons Coaches from LL into HS. Fortunately, for my son, he had some Coaches that have tried to change him and ones that have not. From this he has learned a lot and he is understanding his swing better. He had a great travel ball Coach this summer who both helped him by supporting the rotational swing and helped me let him struggle enough to work out of some issues after he took one off his lead foot.
This past spring and summer I saw my son use PLT/THT when facing 90 mph fast balls. Four of those pitchers have signed with or committed to Ga Tech...he hit .900 against those with zero Ks...was able to hit the high and tight pitch down the RF line behind in the count and pull it down the left field line ahead in the count...on an even count he hit gap to gap. When doing this, I saw him start the torque action and hold up his swing on borderline pitches time and time again. I am determined to get this on video this year so I can see the sequence...I can not be sure exactly when it happens in relationship to heel drop because it all happens so fast....I think it is during heel drop but video will tell me for sure. I give Jack credit for helping my son get this. The first time I saw it was after Jack told me to tell him to keep that back elbow up, the 2nd time was against high 90+ mph pitching. I am fairly confident the shoulders never rotated on the pitches he held his swing on. I hope Video will show me once he faces better pitching. I need to get footage of him hammering one and also holding up the swing. Best Wishes!

Note to RQL...please send that drill if you have time (adjustment on the fly).


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