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Re: Re: Re: Re: A-Rod & The Swing Plane ‘cont”

Posted by: tom.guerry (tom,guerry@kp.org) on Sat Aug 25 10:57:17 2007

> I wish someone could tell me what PCR is so I would know if I am one of the boys or not.


I'll describe what I know of PCR and you can decide if it makes sense and where you belong.

I have not kept up with any evolution/revision, and perhaps people more familiar with ongoing PCR can chime in and clarify. One particular area that puzzles me is that Nyman and Englishbey seem to be the leading proponents, but Nyman says that they do things differently,whereas Englishbey says it is the same.

I think the "simple" answer is that PCR is a method which is fatally flawed if your goal is to swing like a good mlb player because it is based on a faulty assumption of what constitutes good "transfer mechanics".

Jack has it right, good transfer mechanics require a synergistic blend of torque and CHP.

Nyman basically claims it is CHP only.

That makes an mlb swing impossible in my opinion.

More detail:

"PCR" or "PCRW" is the Nyman approach to learning to swing which he describes as a "functional" trial and error approach that adheres to certain guidelines.

While Nyman professes to belive that "there is no such thing as good mechanics" due to the diversity of ways an individual can learn to use their muscles to execute a swing, he does believe in certain mechanical principles and even certain joint action sequences ( as with the throw being bow-flex-bow/horizontal adduction/abduction/external-internal rotation for example - in hitting he has not figured out things at this "universal" joint motion level).

Steve Englishbey has developed many drills/approaches adhering to this same model/set of guidelines which Nyman likens to a building code as opposed to an architecture or any more definitive systemic step by step approach to learning.

Nyman's belief is that in the swing, you want to make it as simple and repeatable as possible, and to do this, there are basically only 2 things you want to adjust, 1 - bend at waist, 2 - adjust swing radius.

To do this you bend way over so you can get to low ball and adjust up if necessary. You belly up and hook the handpath as much as possible to handle inside, occasionally having to disconnect for outside contact, but ideally starting with a long enough swing radius to hit outside location, then hook handpath as an on the fly adjustment if things are more inside.

Descriptions can be found at Nyman's setpro websites, at Englishbey.com and at various websites of PCR enthusiasts, for example John Sigler for another third party type description:

"Understanding Proper Swing Mechanics is as Easy as P-C-R"


Unfortunately, 1 of the bedrock mechanical guidelines of Nyman's PCRW (posture/connection/rotation/whip) is based on the idea that what Jack describes as handle torque does not exist as an essential active component of the swing. Nyman seems to believe that any actively applied handle torque should be minimized and as much as possible be only the result of reaction to shoulder rotation as Shawn is claiming, for example.

This forces Nyman to become obssessed with limiting bat "lag and drag" by many other means which make this swing pattern more usable, but less and less like what any good mlb power hitters actually do.

After all, I would say that swing instruction should be based on description of what the best hitters actually do and have in common, rather than trying to force hitters to follow what appears "scientifically" the most parsimonious/simple/repeatable/cocnsistent.

Along these lines, Jack has a FAR FAR better description of what great hitters actually do to transfer momentum from body to bat which is an optimal blend of handle torque and CHP/pendulum/whip.

In other words, Nyman's model is basically a CHP only swing.
Without understanding the essential/foundational importance of the torquing component, this dooms the swing to failure because "early batspeed" can not be developed and the bat MUST be dragged beginning at initiation due to the absence of actively applying well timed and directed handle torque.

Handle torque is essential to prevent the bat's angular acceleration from falling behind the body's rotation.

Handle torque is what good mlb hitters must do in addition to and compatible with the CHP.

The most recent Nyman descriptions are available for your review at:


Some excerpts:

[- NOTICE - the proposed cure for drag is "just turning"
while recognizing the goal as transferring momentum from the body to to turn the bat, Nyman does NOT recognize the essential role of handle torque required for good "transfer mechanics". This makes early batspeed and swinging quickly impossible and makes the swing harder to adjust]


"The goal is to transfer momentum from the rotation of the body in such a way as to develop bat speed as quickly as possible. Connection to the rotation the torso is primarily determined by the connection from the lead shoulder to the lead hand.

"The point I'm trying to make here is that I don't view it as and unloading of the shoulder rather simply it is the necessity to maintain connection to the extent that you create rotation around an axis. Ideally you would like to shorten the radius of rotation (figure skater effect) which can be achieved by abduction of the front shoulder

"It is always been very clear to me that the primary mechanism for developing swing quickness and bat speed is rotation of the torso.As far as what one can do to eliminate bat drag and bat lag (which are not in my view the same is disconnection), the only thing I can say is one must establish and maintain "the box" from the very beginning of the swing.

"Creating near instantaneous rotational movement of the bat is what no stride swing training is all about i.e. stripping the swing down to its bare essentials, i.e. just turning on the ball. Allowing the lead/bottom hand describe out a circular path which then will allow a natural whipping or flailing action of the bat to occur as opposed to trying to muscle the bat to the ball."


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