Posted by: Teacherman () on Sat Dec 7 21:47:17 2002

>>> I was wonder same thing as Brandon.I don't think you were purposely ignoring his question, maybe the premise of his question is wrong. Let's start over from scratch.
> JH said in part "between L position and Power V position, is the bat's speed increasing or decreasing? Jack says it is decreasing, you say it is increasing. Jack has offered evidence that it is decreasing. Now your turn to offer evidence that it is increasing."
> So, before asking where/when you offered evidence that bat speed is decreasing between L position and Power V position, maybe I should ask you this question: Have you or have you not offered such evidence? Is this your position in the first place (as described by JH) or was JH putting words in your mouth?
> If the naswe is yes to both questions then me (and Brandon are simply asking for where we can see the evidence. If the answer is no, then we need to go back to JH and ask where he came up with this.
> Please respond, Jack, contact at L position, or are you with Teacherman on this issue (contact at Power V).Thanks Jack <<<
>
> Hi Kyle
>
> This was my reply to Brandon’s post.
>
> ###
>
> >>> Is anyone home? I can't find the proof of the bat decelerating from the "L" to the power V? Will some one point it out to me?
> >
> > Brandon <<<<
> >
> > Hi Brandon
> >
> > What proof would you require to convince you? Once I understand what you want, I will give you my best answer.
> >
> > Jack Mankin
>
> >>> Im just responding to JH's post where it says you have proven that the bat decelerates between the "L" and the Power V. I'm not trying to be convinced. Just trying to learn. Would like to read the theory and the supporting facts so I can understand. <<<
>
> Hi Brandon
>
> First, let me clarify my position. --- With linear (back-side extension) mechanics, maximum bat speed will be reach closer to the “V” position. With rotational mechanics (top & bottom-hand-torque), maximum speed is reached much farther back in the swing. In a good rotational swing the lead-arm will remain fairly straight from launch to contact. The more powerful the swing, the farther back in the “L” position the back-arm will be when hitting middle-in pitches straight-away. The more out-side the pitch or with balls that are pulled, the straighter the back-arm will be at contact.
>
> I do not have test data to prove it, but the argument that I offered to support this position (see below) seemed to satisfy JH and others. If you would like to offer an opposing perspective, I would be happy to discuss it with you.
>
> ###
>
> Hi Teacherman
>
> I agree with you that the batspeed that really counts must be generated by contact. Any bat acceleration that occurs after contact is wasted energy. I also agree that the swing mechanics used by the average hitter gains much of the bat speed after passing the normal contact point. Therefore, for an average hitter to reach maximum bat speed the batter’s arms will be nearing full extension. But I do not agree that this is also true with the mechanics used by the better professional hitters.
>
> The average hitter uses one-dimension swing mechanics. They initiate their swing by directing their energies (extending the back-side and arm) toward the pitcher. The great hitters have an added dimension to their swing mechanics. They accelerate the bat-head back toward the catcher BEFORE they turn and direct their energies toward to pitcher. Developing this early circular bat speed back behind allows better hitters to reach maximum speed farther back (earlier) in the swing where the back-elbow is still in the “L” position.
>
> I call the mechanic (added dimension) the better hitters use to accelerate the bat-head back toward the catcher, Top-Hand-Torque (THT). Below is another post I wrote earlier on this topic.
>
> ###
>
> Added note: I charted the swings of a few (very few) hitters who could exhibit the mechanics discussed below without initiating the swing with THT. Ron Gant and Matt Williams are examples. They made a living on inside pitches but were weak outside.
>
> ###
>
> As Major Dan pointed out, all hitters (3/3) will have the back-arm more extended (well past the “L” position) on more outside pitches. But, even on pitches down the middle, I would be surprised if more than 1/3 of today's pro hitters bring the bat to contact with the back-arm in the "L" position. This, along with lead-shoulder pull, is the mark of a hitter with real power for pitches from the middle-in.
>
> The "L" position of the back-arm and the lead-shoulder pulling the bottom-hand back at contact are the key components in generating the "hook" (coined by Paul Nyman) in the hand-path. The "hook" indicates the arc radius of the hand-path is rapidly shrinking which maximizes the transfer of the body's rotational energy to the bat, and greatly increases the bat's rate of angular displacement. The "hook" also indicates maximum bottom-hand-torque is being applied to the bat. -- In other words, great bat speed is being developed when these two positions (the "L" position and lead-shoulder pull) occur.
>
> Average hitters apply a good deal of torque to the bat by driving the top-hand past the bottom-hand. But, the farther the back-arm extends to produce the torque, the more sweeping the hand-path becomes -- and therefore producing less "hook" effect. --- The better hitters apply torque by using lead-shoulder rotation to pull the bottom-hand around the top-hand (back-arm in "L" position). This pulling back action generates the "hook" effect.
>
> Therefor, the average hitter may apply as much torque to the bat as a better hitter, but his sweeping (or straighter) hand-path does not transfer as much of the body's rotational energy. To become a great hitter requires both torque and the transfer of rotational energy. --- Note: For maximum "hook" effect -- the "L" (1), pull back (2), and contact (3) - must occur simultaneously (or together).
>
> Jack Mankin

Jack

I am very surprised by your response. I expected scientific proof much like what is offered in the research section of the website. Although we are on the very same page with what hitting mechanics should be, we are on very different pages on this issue. I fully expected you to prove that the bat decelerates between the "L" and the power V like your followers kept insisting. I don't golf but I have several golf pro friends who all insist maximum club head speed is at extension. Are they wrong? If so, why would swinging a baseball bat be any different than swinging a golf club WHEN IT COMES TO MAXIMUM BATSPEED/CLUBHEAD SPEED. Again, for the umteenth time, I'm not recommending hitting at the power V. My question is, if we had a contest with big bucks offered by a corporate sponsor for the guy who can register the fastest on the SwingMate where will this reading be within the swing? Would it really be with his back arm at the "L".

Teacherman
>