Posted by: rql () on Thu Feb 15 18:59:40 2001

>>>Ray -
> Is El Grande Experimente really an experiment? Is there a significant sample size? Is there a control group? What are the assumptions?
>
> One assumption is not stated. Paul's swing acts as the model for a swing. Using his model, his numbers show what they show. Is this a proper model? Is his swing truly optimized? It is mechanically like a major league swing?
> While 79 MPH is pretty good, good major league swings are 90+ MPH.
> When comparing pitchers, the difference between 79 and 90+ is the difference between the Park League and high level professionals/ between non-prospects and prospects.
> Where is the other 11+ MPH? Is it lack of BHT? lack of THT? Is the torque angle or degree of separation of hips and shoulders large enough? Is the timing of the arms/hands release (flail) correct? Is there a circular hand path?
> Perhaps we should analyze the swing before we analyze the results of the experiment.
>
> Any takers? <<<
>
> Hi Somebody
>
> You stated your case very well. To compare swing models we first must have an accurate definition of each model. --- But I would suggest that we need to go back one step further. We first need to define the forces that can be applied to the bat that generates bat speed. Once we have defined those forces, we can more accurately define the mechanics that maximize the deliver of those forces.
>
> I have stated many times that the rotational model I envision develops bat speed by transferring the body’s rotational energy from the angular displacement of the hand-path (circular hand-path) and from torque (hands applying force from opposing directions). I have further stated that on a good swing, about 50% of the bat speed come from torque and about 50% from an angular hand-path. The model (or mechanics) that maximizes the delivery of those forces has been discussed on this site from its conception.
>
> I am sure that there are others who believe there other factors (other than torque and the hand-path) that are being applied to the bat that generate bat speed. Like “whip effect” or “conservation of momentum” and “kinetic energy transfer” and still other theories. It would be very helpful if those theories were defined in detail with the approximate percentage of the bat speed development they are responsible for. --- I think little can be gained by speaking in generalities.
>
> It could be most enlightening to all if Paul, Charley, Mike, Professor Adair and all serious minded batting enthusiasts would join in the discussion.
>
> Note: If creditable evidence is supplied that shows there are factors other than torque and an angular hand-path doing work on the bat – I will modify my model.
>
> Jack Mankin
> ;;Jack, not to split hairs but you say the bodys rotational energy comes [from] the angular displacement of the hands.Seems to me like the body's energy goes into the hand path.Your rotating on a stationary axis with the legs and hips and then the torso coming around is what I consider to bethe kinetic chain.I don't see how all the energy can come from just hand path and torque,if so then you should be able to sit down in a non swivel chair and create the same batspeed as standing up.If you can't generate the same batspeed then that should be proof that some batspeed is generated from the work of the lower body and transferred to the hands.