Posted by: Mark H. () on Sun Dec 16 18:25:36 2001

darts anyone?
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> > > > > > > i call it "geometrized swing" and it's too long and i want to watch football (steeler's WILL rule, ruin, raze, and wreck the raven's) so i'll divide it in parts.
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> > > > > > > geometrized swing.
> > > > > > > Part I: pitch-hit angles.
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> > > > > > > if:
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> > > > > > > -only plane geometry considered (not solid).
> > > > > > > -overhead view of baseball diamond with home plate at bottom of view and pitching plate at top.
> > > > > > > -average size rh pitcher with 3/4 delivery.
> > > > > > > -average size rh batter using 34 inch bat.
> > > > > > > -sweet spot of bat is 6 inches in from end of barrel and grip shall be established as the point located between hands, 4 inches from end of knob.
> > > > > > > -pitched fastball with no movement.
> > > > > > > -coordinates of pitcher's release point is 5 feet closer toward home plate from home plate side of pitching plate and 2 feet left of center from a line drawn from center-line of pitching plate to center-line of home plate.
> > > > > > > -an extreme outside pitch will be considered a pitch that intersects the center point of the ball with the point formed by the front and outside edges of home plate. inside pitch directly opposite.
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> > > > > > > then(using sine tables and the knowledge that the home plate edge of the pitching rubber is 60 feet 6 inches to the apex occurring at the rear of home plate and that the plate is 17 inches wide and 17 inches deep):
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> > > > > > > -a pitch pitched to the center of home plate creates an angle of approximately 88 degrees formed between the path of the pitch and the front edge of home plate.
> > > > > > > -a pitch to the extreme outside corner forms an angle of 87 degrees.
> > > > > > > -a pitch to the inside corner forms an angle of 89 degrees.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > maximum impact between ball and bat occurs when sweet spot of bat impacts sweet spot of ball (a bat impacting ball perpendicular to the path of the ball. for now, only considering a flat plane and not dimensional. elevations not considered).
> > > > > > > a hit, using this maxim, would have the bat strike the ball in such a way as to send it directly opposite from whence it came.
> > > > > > > therefore, a pitch to the center of the plate, would require a bat positioned (at contact) to form an angle of 2 degrees with the front edge of the plate. this would send the ball 2 degrees to the left field side of straight-away center field.
> > > > > > > a pitch to the outside corner would be hit 3 degrees to the left field side of center field, and an inside pitch only 1 degree to the left field side.
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> > > > > > > amazing. THIS WOULD SEEM TO SUGGEST THAT WE PULL (albeit, ever so slightly) AN OUTSIDE PITCH MORE THAN AN INSIDE PITCH.
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> > > > > > > AND:
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> > > > > > > a CURVEBALL on the outside corner would create an angle of even less degree.
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> > > > > > > dart's please!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > next up. Part II: hand position.
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> > > > > > > ray porco
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> > > > > > > Ray, in a way you are right, because when you say " WE PULL (albeit, ever so slightly) AN OUTSIDE PITCH MORE THAN AN INSIDE PITCH ", that is exactly what frequently happens when you contact the ball (outside pitch)the same distance in front of home plate as you would an inside pitch. And this type of contact frequently results in a weak grounder to the pull side.
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> > > > > > Using the front edge of home plate as a reference point, let's say a hitter contacts an inside pitch 18 inches in front of home plate. That same hitter should then contact a middle pitch closer in, for example 9 inches in front of home plate. And the outside pitch will be contacted perhaps even with front edge of home plate.
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> > > > > Saat,
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> > > > > Don't forget, as Jack recently pointed out, one of the strengths of rotational hitting as opposed to linear hitting is that there is relatively less difference between where you have to contact an inside pitch and an outside pitch.
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> > > > > Mark H.
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> > > > > Mark, you have it backwards. One of the WEAKNESSES of "rotational hitting" an outside pitch is YOU CAN NOT FULLY ROTATE!!! It's a physiological concept ----- On an outside pitch you have to REACH to get to the ball. If you don't "reach" you rotate the sweet part of the bat AWAY from the ball. If you "reach" with body lean you inhibit hip rotation. If you "reach" by fully extending the top arm, you again inhibit hip rotation. I'm with you all the way with rotational hitting when it comes to hitting an inside pitch, but you need to overcome this notion that what works for an "easy-to-reach" inside pitch will also work for a "harder-to-reach" outside pitch.
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> > >
> > > As Jack has asked, when, or at what angle, does the bat have the most plate coverage? My question to you is, do you understand Jack's comments about the arcing handpath, or tightening of the arc, to adjust to the inside location?
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> > > Mark H.
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> > Also, do you understand Jack's concept of tht and what it does to the handpath in terms of adjusting to pitch location?
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> > If you understand these things and disagree with them, that is one conversation. If you don't understand or are unfamiliar with them, then that is another conversation. And if you don't understand them, beware, Tom G. may unleash another one of his novels on you.;) God bless him, if it weren't for his novels, I would never have found this place and would still be muddling along somewhere between linear and rotational without knowing the difference.
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> > Mark H.
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> Saat,
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> Here's a clip that I'm sure I got from Tom that has a side by side of Aaron. The left clip shows him hitting a pitch that looks to be well inside of the black. The clip on the right shows him hitting a ball over the middle of the plate. What would you say about the contact point as far as how far in front of the plate contact was made? And is the handpath circular or linear in your opinion?
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> http://www.beabetterhitter.com/text/development/coiling/coilingframe2.htm
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> Here is another clip I got from Tom of Piazza. I see a heel drop triggering hip rotation with a nice separation before torque generated shoulder rotation connected to the bat with the tight linkage of the front arm followed by a further tightening of the arc, or arcing handpath as I think Jack says, (iow, less linear) to adjust to the inside pitch location. What do you see?
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> http://www.setpro.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000507.html
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> Mark H.

Sorry for the run on posting. One more question. Which direction does the bathead move initially?

Mark H.