Posted by: Major Dan (markj89@charter.net) on Fri May 3 05:35:35 2002

For the most part, I think the posts are great. It seems that some are looking for validation of this technique by a major league player. Frankly, I would too. I can name dozens of players hitting near the "mendoza line" that should be trying something different. I have sent tapes to several players, but am not surprised by the lack of response. The baseball fraternity is a pretty closed group and change comes very slowly. Look at the current maple versus ash bat controversey. The people at Hoosier Bat Company and others have been trying to get big league players to use something other than ash for over 15 years. All of a sudden, Barry Bonds tries a maple bat in BP provided by a carpenter and then uses it to break the home run record. I think if baseball people were more open to new ideas like Jack's or mine, who knows what might happen. Until then, I will keep having fun teaching something that makes a difference. Finally, if you were to watch hitters who use my technique, you wouldn't notice much of a difference from other hitters except they would be hitting the ball harder. Thanks. Paul P.
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> > > > > paul...you know what they say, a picture is worth a 1000 words....why don't you post a clip of your son (or anyone else you know who uses this technique) at setpro.com ?.....i think at least part of the skepticism is due to not being able to visualize this swing from beginning to end....
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> > > > If you go to Mike Epsteins site and watch the before and after videos of two of his young students you'll see them using the technique. It's under news and then the first two icons on the right indicating before and after pictures. I'm not sure I like the after swings but the hands aspect of the torgue technique is demonstrated.
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> > > richard, epstein does NOT advocate paul's torque technique....epstein's and paul's techniques are two different things....
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> > > basically, epstein's "torque position" is, in the launch position, already have the hips nearly fully rotated (which i think is bogus, but that's another subject for another day)....
> > >
> > > paul's idea has to do with starting out with a "flat bat"....there may be other similarities with other parts of his swing & epstein's swing, or jack's swing, but if i understand paul's article correctly, he is advocating a flat bat (which i also think is bogus)...
> >
> > I've heard mention of the flat bat on this site but I didn't read anything about a flat bat on webball.com. I suppose the bat could be flat to accomplish the torgue but it doesn't have to be. I thought that "torgue" referred to the two forces going in opposite directions. This can be accomplished with the bat flat or with the bat at the normal (or near normal) 45 degree angle. My sons bats are angled at close to 45 degrees. They press the handle against their upper arms and rotate using the power of their legs. They also torgue their upper body by rotating it away from the pitcher just before lauch.
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> you are right, he doesn't call it a flat bat...that is MY term to describe what i think he is describing...i hope he will follow through & post a clip at setpro.com....
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> and at this point the flat bat is my major objection to the method....
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> "My sons bats are angled at close to 45 degrees. They press the handle against their upper arms".....i think this is much more workable, although i think possibly resting the bat against the top of the shoulder might be better yet.....i can see how the hitter could "wait" until the last possible moment before "letting go"....i know that some skeptics might wonder if the hitter would have enough time after decision to get the bat around, but then again, maybe the additional torque (if any) would make up that supposed loss of time....
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> why don't YOU post a clip of your son at setpro (but beware: when you ask for a swing review at setpro there will be a wide variety of things "wrong" that you might never have dreamed of...(and maybe that's good)....
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> or perhaps we could all add a little "science" to this by buying jack's bat meter...it sounds like it might not be quite as sophisticated as nyman's but it appears to be a heck of a lot less expensive....
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> respectfully, grc....

I was watching ESPN's baseball recap last night and when they recapped the Angels' game, to my amazement, one the Angels, a left handed hitter (but I didn't get the name, they went very fast) looked very much like what Richard is describing.
He had the bat pressed against his left arm and shoulder, hands tucked into the armpit. As he landed his stride, the arm and bat separated only slightly as he started to turn into the swing.
It happened very quickly, I didn't get the name (anyone else see this?) but it sure looked like what I think we're talking about here.
[not flat bat].