Posted by: tom.guerry (tom.guerry@kp.org) on Wed May 22 09:08:27 2002

OK, so then let me give a bit more detail, then ask a follow-up question to my own original question. When I use this swing (pretty much by accident, as an instinctive reaction to a high inside strike) I notice that my torso, leading arm, bat, and elbow zip around almost like a solid unit, with the leading arm bent pretty much at a constant right angle throughout the arc of the swing, and then extending out (but still, as noted, without the wrist rolling or breaking) only after contact. I can't vouch for this--and remember, I'm a lefty--but my impression is that when contact occurs, the bat-head is still dragging somewhat through the zone, such that I'm technically inside-outing the ball, but NOT REALLY (in an overall sense) because my torso has rotated so far around that I'm actually almost square to the first baseman at the instant of impact. Btw, this can be murder on the elbow (I'm 52), especially if you miss the pitch, because eventually you reach the end-point of the arc at full velocity with the palm still facing down, and I don't think the elbow joint was designed to handle that kind of deceleration. But leaving that aside, I find, as I said earlier, that there is no comparison between the power generated by this stroke, and any other stroke I've used, purposely or by accident, in 40+ years of hitting. Generally these days I top out with warning-track power (our fences are around 325 feet down the line), but I've hit foul balls using this "technique" that not only cleared our fences, but the facing ones on the adjacent field. I also did hit one fair HR last year that we estimated traveled around 425 feet to right-center (it's a wood bat league).
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> I don't know why, but it has never really occurred to me to try to make this my actual swing. And of course, there are definite problems here in terms of one's ability to stay in the configuration described while adjusting to outside pitches (or even low ones). But speaking in a purely mechanical sense, do you guys--who are far more knowledgeable on these matters than myself--think this is a viable technique to even TRY to build into my overall hitting mechanics? Is there any objective evidence for it? As I also noted earlier, the only pro I've ever really seen do anything like this is Frank Thomas, who appears to have hit some genuine rocket shots with it (although somehow he keeps them fair).
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> Also, does anybody want to take a stab at explaining what's probably happening here in the context of physics? Aside from questions of torque, could it be that somehow I'm imparting tremendous backspin to the ball by hitting it with absolutely no wrist flexion at all (i.e. the old Ted Williams/woodchopping model)?
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> Thanks again for all feedback/help. I'm really intrigued by this. Don't ask what took me 50 years!

You asked for it.If it was easy you would have figured it out sooner.

The swing you are talking about works by what is called here bottom hand torque for the middle in pitch.Jack has figure this out and explains it well.Study the site and in your spare time look through the forum and read all of Jack's posts.

Look at the Piazza clip as an example.Major leaguers will often do this on the very inside pitch because they have figured out(trial and error like rql) this is the only way to get the (small wood)sweetspot on this pitch and retain power and keep the ball fair.

The concept of bottom hand torque is accentuating the feel of pulling back with the bottom hand through contact.What is pulling the bottom hand back is the torso continuing to rotate back toward the catcher.It has to do this maximally on this pitch."turning on the inside pitch" like this uses the figure skater effect of pulling the hands in or "hooking the hand path",however,it needs to be done without "disconnecting" the bat from the torso which happens if the arm muscles get too actively involved.

RQL also figured out this pull back for the inside "secret" through hours/months of obsessive tee work,but without an overall theory was somewhat in the dark about how to apply it,and especially how to teach it.This is now possible.

With the tightening arc/hooking of the hand path/use of big muscles,good connection is maintained and the torso turn turns the handpath quickly.The center of mass of the bat(think of an approximation of this being the sweetspot) demands energy out of the torso that is efficiently turned into batspeed(angular displacement of the bat,not dragging the bat).This energy transfer shuts down fast with any straightening/extension/going linear of the handpath as showed by Jack's steering wheel knob demonstration.When it shuts down,the last burst of energy transferred out of the torso will extend the bat too soon(hit around ball/dead pull)if the bathead is out too much or will push the hands and knob of the bat out without turning the bat-dragging.

What feels like dragging to you is just the fact that the hands stay ahead of the bat longer for this full torso turn swing.The bat is not really "dragging" which is what happens when the overactive arms disconnect the bat from the torso(extending handpath) and pull the knob along the direction of the length of the bat which does not efficiently result in batspeed-the bat doesn't turn,it just slides forward following the knob.

In the good bottom hand torque swing,the bat head still gets out ahead of the hands as evidenced by the fact that you pull this pitch.It just does so over a longer trajectory due to more turning of the torso.Batspeed is generated by ball on string transfer of centrifugal type forces and contact is made before the back elbow extends("L" comes out of elbow).The "L" coming out of elbow on the more outside pitch is often associated with the feel of batspeed,so I think this is why the inside/bottom hand torque/"L" still in elbow type swing feels so effortless,evem though batspeed is greater than in the outside location where there is some extension of the back arm.

For some more related physics,see:

http://www.setpro.com/NEWWEB/bestmaxindex0.htm