Posted by: Bart () on Mon Oct 7 08:45:06 2002

Bart-
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing the results of your analysis.Since you mentioned
> > > the hands back by the back thigh in lag,this is something I have
> > > looked for and I agree it is a good sign.I have been looking further
> > > back in the swing to see what might be upstream from this.I believe
> > > this is the same dynamic which Jack describes as loose connection at
> > > launch which then later results in a suboptimal "lag" position and
> > > torso turn stopping prematurely(particularly on the middle in pitches
> > > you want to "turn on").I think this may be the same phenomenon that
> > > results in the flaw Nyman describes as hip slide.So how do you prevent
> > > the hips from sliding/swaying.Or how do you rotate instead of
> > > sway?Right from the start.
> > >
> > > My answer to this is based on watching Tiger Woods hit the driver/long
> > > irons from multiple angles.This comparison is dangerous because it's a
> > > different sport with different final goals.But I believe the
> > > similarity is enough for this part of the swing.It also fits with
> > > Epstein's description of the hip rotation/opening reversing a torso
> > > turn that is still turning back,although I much prefer the Nyman "scap
> > > load" description of this with its connotatioins of stretching/loading
> > > as opposed to taking more of a backswing as the term "counter-rotation
> > > could imply"(and I see the players that emphasize this
> > > "artificial/one-piece looking" counter-rotation not doing as well).In
> > > golf the keys are having the club on plane at the top and then
> > > unwinding in the right muscle sequence.
> > >
> > > The big muscles must be still loding/stretching/keeping the torso back
> > > as forward hip turn creates a last bit of stretch before
> > > "launch"(torso begins turning forward).I think the hand path must stay
> > > in as launch gets underway,and the axis of rotation needs to be set
> > > when hip deceleration starts.
> > >
> > > What is most difficult is determining when torso turn really starts as
> > > opposed to ongoing scap loading and bat cocking/uncocking.In any
> > > case,sway needs to be eliminated when this "reversal" happens.For
> > > this,having the bat in a necessary position/range of motion seems
> > > necessary but not sufficient.
> > >
> > > Have you tried to look further upstream at this point in the
> > > swing.Perhaps it would relate to how well the "lag" position is
> > > achieved
> >
> > "So how do you prevent the hips from sliding/swaying.Or how do you rotate instead of sway?Right from the start."
> >
> > My answer to this is that I think hip slide has to do with a combination of knee bend at toe touch and timing. Not much can or should be done about knee bend, as I agree with Jack that a certain amount of knee bend at toe touch is necessary. But I have noticed that when a hitter is early on his timing and has to "wait", the more knee bend at toe touch, the more linear hip slide. So in the end, I think the only way to control it is in the timing. And it does seem like the major leaguers have refined this to an art. I see them very consistently go quickly (as in 2 frames) from toe touch to heel drop, and I do not see almost any deviation among the hitters from this.
> >
> > I suppose an alternate way to control hip slide would be to, in trying to "keep the weight back" have more weight on the back foot (such as 70 per cent?), but I think this is risky.
> >
> > I don't know golf: is there such a thing as hip slide in golf? It seems to me (but I think you are the expert on golf so you tell me!) that if you are (1) not lifting the front foot and (2) there is no timing issue, how could you have hip slide unintentionally? In the case of hitting a baseball, at decision time (toe touch or shortly before), if the ball is not quite going to be there & hitter has to "wait", and if the front knee is flexed (as it should be), what else will the body naturally do except slide forward in a linear motion? But in the case of golf, backswing, swing, period, right?
>
> Hey
> I have a clip of Tiger Woods swing, one in which he drives the green 340 yards. There is noticable hip slide, mostly due because golfers have a narrow stance, it seems he rotates off his front leg, he finishes with weight on front leg. I notice during his inward turn he really loads up on his back leg, while keeping his front toe partially open during his inward turn. Do you guys think that the Front knee becoming rigid at contact keeps you from being too linear?
> the Hitman
> >

Hitman,at what point in the swing is the hip slide?

Also, I think that most hitters have the front knee rigid by contact. The key is how rigid is the front knee at toe or heel plant.