Posted by: John (quarters23@hotmail.com) on Sun Oct 13 22:14:55 2002

I am sure this has been discussed in great detail in the past so if you would like to direct me to that discussion or add to it please feel free. My question is regarding the 'rise ball'. Does the baseball actually begin its movement towards homeplate on a straight line and then begin to rise? Or is it a perception of the naked eye, because of leaning backwards and the particular release point the ball seems to move upwards?
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> > > > > John,
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> > > > > To make a ball rise it would have to spin backward, toward the thrower, with enough velocity to make it overcome the pull of gravity. A base ball thrown 100 mph over 55 ft will drop 2.61 feet.
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> > > > > It is physically impossible for a human to spin a ball enough to make it rise. Overhand is the way to make the ball spin backward the most. It must spin from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock and it can't be done. It certainly can't be done in softball where the myth of the "rise ball" is most prevalent.
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> > > > > Scientist, who know a ball can't rise think that the most that can be done is make the ball not drop as much. Batters expect the ball to drop a certain amount. When it doesn't it "looks" to them like it rose.
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> > > > > The "rise ball" does not rise. People think it rises because the softball fast-pitch is the only ball in baseball or softball that is thrown with speed that ends up, when caught, at a point higher than the release point.
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> > > > > F. J.
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> > > > F.J.,
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> > > > Thanks for the quick response! I appreciate it very much, however, I am wondering if you could direct me to the peer reviewed scientific literature that states these claims (i.e., a ball cannot rise under normal conditions). Thanks again.
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> > > > John
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> > > john and frank,
> > > robert adair's book, "the physics of baseball" actually has a chapter on pitched balls, and deals with the effecets of spin on pitched balls, and even addresses the softball question. adair is a physics profeesor at yale, and i've seen him on espn and baseball tonight a few times. the book is intersting because it addresses some of those popular myths that float around baseball. all objects on earth drop at a rate of 32ft/ sec squared, which the the rate of gravity in a vacuum. if a ball were dropped and thrown at a 100mph at the same height, the dropped ball would hit the ground first, assuming there is air resistance and backspin. in a vacuum they would hit the ground at the same time. In adair's book, he states that it is impossible for a human to throw a baseball from a 1o inch mound and impart enough backspin to make it rise as it crosses the plate, which seems to make sense. it is an optical illusion from the batters perspective. he does state, however, that a softball pitcher throwing underhand from 46 feet can throw aball that is still on an upward path as it crosses the plate.
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> > Is this upward path directly related to the release point according to this author?
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> if i understand adair correctly, i believe he means the the ball will be rising in elevation as it crosses the batters armpits, not just in relation to the realese point. i've never played softball, so i don't have anecdotal evidence, but i assume that only a select few high level softball pitchers would have enough velocity for the ball to still be on an upward path at 46ft away from the realese point.

So what is making the ball rise according to Adair's studies? Are these studies or just views?