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Re: Re: Re: Rotation, ground-up or from the middle.

Posted by: Tom Waz (sluggoking@msn.com) on Wed May 26 10:33:35 2004

Hi All
> > >
> > > There has been a lot of discussion lately on the board regarding whether body rotation is generated from the ground or starts in the middle at the hips. Some say they initiate rotation with the legs as the heel lowers, others say they start with the hips with little coming from the legs.
> > >
> > > It may be interesting to discuss if it really matters. – Assume both theories generate the same rate of shoulder rotation. In that case, what differences to the swing plane or bat speed would the different theories produce?
> > >
> > > I will be traveling to Oregon the next few days. Therefore, my opinion on the subject will be delayed until Friday or Saturday. Also, it might be longer between board updates.
> > >
> > > Jack Mankin
> > >
> > >
> >
> > This is the essence of all great swing/throwing mechanics in my opinion Jack. THT/BHT/Scap-load,inward turn, etc cannot be done effectively unless the middle of the body is king. It's a concept that I find very difficult to explain in words, but can easily show in demonstration. I believe Tom has said, "Arm action is king" and there may be some truth to that, but for me my success in teaching has come from starting with the middle of the body.
> >
> > The baseline of all good swings is to start at 50/50 with the weight and then stride to 50/50. I’m reminded of the typical T-ball player (5 to 6 yrs old) that is asked to hit the ball hard. Typically they counter-rotate the shoulders/hips and bat (thereby loading the weight on the back leg) only to rotate the entire body through on the hit through the ball. It’s the baseline for a swing that takes too much time, creates lunging and the incorrect usage of the hands, shoulders and hips. The true issue here is counter rotation. In as many as 98 percent of the swings I see below the Major League Level, most counter rotate, either the legs, hips, shoulders, arms or hands. This is death to a hitter in my mind and something I talk about to anyone that will listen.
> >
> > In order not to counter rotate, the legs, hips, shoulders, arms and hands must have a new understanding of what needs to take place. For many reasons really, but ideally for the benefit of time and a more efficient energy transfer. I’m reminded of a phrase “Eddie Merrins” (famous golf teacher) once said, “most people get lost in the back swing.” I wish I would have invented that phrase, but adding to it I would say, “There is only a forward swing”.
> >
> > The inward turn is one of the most misunderstood phrases I’ve had the pleasure of hearing. It is not a necessary component of a good swing, but when done correctly can certainly benefit the player. Let’s put it this way…….it should not be in the “Hitting 101” material. It’s for the more advanced player, who understands how to cock/turn the hips correctly.
> >
> > To your point in the original post as to the role of the legs. Any swing that would have the legs initiating the turn and having the hips follow (get in line, so to speak) is a swing that is counter rotating. A swing that leads with the pelvic region, making essentially a ¼ turn to the ball during the stride is the proper lower half movement and sets the table for the shoulders to swing through the ball as you describe. I’m sure we will go into much more detail on this as the discussion progresses, but the best I can say at this point is that hitting is much simpler than we think.
> >
> > One move to the ball is the baseline…..everything else I see is just a longer one move.
> >
> > Coach C
> >
> Go to www.teachersbilliards.com. You'll find a swing that starts in the center.

Coach C,

What don't you like 'going backwards'...the hands, shoulders, hips or all three? Are you suggesting starting square to the plate or in the prelaunch position (weight 40/60, hips cocked, hands hidden from pitcher)? - Tom Waz


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