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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:Confusion/heavy bag drill

Posted by: phil (philipland@aol.com) on Fri Jul 29 13:34:35 2005

Good points. At contact it is, then.
> I wrote:
> "Second, if you truly believe '...that forces applied by the hands to the
bat handle at contact have no effect...' then why is most of your hitting
theory based on what you term, 'hand torque'?"
> Your response:
> "Again, these forces are applied prior to contact."
> Question:
> What forces are applied by the 'hands', and exactly when (start and stop
points) prior to contact?
> **** In my opinion, the only force that the hands apply directly is a gripping force. When it occurs I would think depends on the individual swinging the bat. Forces that effect bat speed (ie hip, torso rotation, unfolding of the arms, unhinging of the wrists) are applied through the hands, and through out the swing.*****
> Your quote:
> "At contact, according to the study, it has no effect. Prior to contact
you may see different results."
> A firmer grip prior to contact may produce different results. What do you
think they (different results) might be?

*****What I meant was from the beginning of the swing to contact. The tighter the grip earlier in the swing could produce tension and reduce swing speed. Obviously, as the bat speeds up it must be gripped tighter to be held on to, but the tightening is more reflexive than anything.******
> Your quote:
> "Recoil of the bat (post impact) is a result of the energy of the ball
being transferred to the bat. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed,
so any energy expended to move the bat will be lost from the energy
transferred back to the ball's deflection. This loss of energy will result
in a loss of "exit speed"
> So, can I conclude that if a bat is permitted to recoil, there will be a
loss of ball exit speed? And what do you suppose would permit a bat to
recoil more from ball impact, a firm or loose grip?

*****Yes. I would think a firm grip, but in the study of a swinging bat impacting a ball, there was no difference. I think this was explained by the moment of inertia of the bat. There is also some flex in a bat which may influence recoil in tightly gripped conditions.*****
> Your quote:
> "I would think so too, but it was not supported by the study."
> Correction: It was not attempted by the study.

***** It was in the first study, and they did find that a bat held in a vise produced a higher exit velocity than a bat freely hanging. This was dispelled in a subsequent study, but the bats were swung. This second study is the one where I thinked they used a pivot instead of a clamp. (In all honesty, I just skimmed the papers.)

I think the point you're trying to make is that a tight grip at contact will increase the exit speed of the ball. It very well may if the bat is held still, as in bunting, by not allowing the bat to recoil. But in a dynamic situation, with the bat moving at a high rate of speed, I don't think grip pressure will have a large effect on exit velocity since any recoil will be overcome by the bat's momentum.

I don't claim to be a component of any specific type of swing, but the rotational mechanics described on this site seem to make the most sense logically. This post started subsequent to a comment on a heavy bag or heavy ball drill, and their merits. I feel both have their merits. The heavy ball drill, even though it reenforces
speed after contact, helps develop muscles that increase speed to contact. The heavy bag drill reenforces speed and mechanics to contact and correct contact position. I guess my point is that the reasoning behind some drills may be flawed, the end result is
beneficial to any type of swing.


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