Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions
Posted by: rql (
) on Wed Dec 9 18:17:41 2009
> > >>> Jack, I was reviewing your thoughts on the Rose clip as well as the Giambi wanted to make a quick comment. You point out that Rose begins to rotation his shoulders at the same time as his hips. This is not what is showing the Giambi clip. Around the 2:45 make you see his front hip begin to open up while his shoulders remain squared up to home plate momentarily with a slight delay. After this opening of the front him, his shoulders will then rotate. <<<
> > Hi Nate
> > jack > > I agree with your observation, there is a momentary delay between Giambi's hips and shoulder rotation. I find this to be the case with a most batters. However, I do not find this delay is due to a delay in activating the torso muscles that induces the shoulders to rotate. It is the added load of overcoming the inertia of accelerating upper-body mass and the bat that causes shoulder rotation to lag behind the hips during the initiation of the swing.
> > One of my concerns in the matter is with the mechanics of a drill being taught by a number of California coaches (little league through college). Some coaches refer to it as the "1,2,3 Drill." In the drill, the students are taught, (1) Stride, (2) Fully open the hips while keeping the shoulders closed, (3) Swing. When I inquired as to the purpose of the sequential steps in the drill, the most frequent response was to "attain maximum separation of the hips and shoulders." They believed the greater the separation, the greater the power and quickness produced.
> > I find this is not supported by either video analysis or bio-mechanical principles. Once the muscles of the legs are used to fully open the hips (under no load), only the contraction of the torso muscles is left to power shoulder rotation. I would advise that allowing the hips to free-wheel open disconnect the muscle of the legs from the torso muscles.
> > For the large muscles of the legs to contribute energy to aid in powering shoulder rotation, the muscles of the torso must be engaged as hip rotation is initiated. -- This could be described as similar to the function of the clutch in a car's transmission.
> > Jack Mankin
> I see what you are saying, and I am too not a fan of creating such a delay that the leg and torso muscles are disengaged from each other. It would seem however, from watching many clips of hitters and pitchers, that the upper body does in fact rotate at a later (though very slight) time. This can happen don't you think (as seen in the Giambi clip) without having leg and torso muscles disconnected.
> If I read your last sentence correctly, you chose to mention the large muscles being engaged first and then the torso following right behind. ie - clutch let out (legs/hips) then engagement with gear (torso/hands).
> Pujols seems to illustrate this quite well in the slow motion clips I've come across.
> Thanks for your response.
>>jack isnt this 123 drill what epstein promotes,I assumed it was a beginner drill to promote seperation between stride and hip turn ,then hips ahead of shoulder turn.I assumes as they got older they would learn to tie it together as a sequence in the swing.I agree if at hs level they still try to actually do this in the swing it would fail I would think,seems it takes 1st gear completely out of equation .Next isnt the tht part of the swing actually a combination of the rear arm area causing the top hand to pull back while the connected front shoulder having started to initiate which pulls the bottom hand forward,this causes the torque from both directions opposing forces.Do you think the lead arm has not started being pulled from shoulder turn at the tht phase.
Next torque and I have discussed this before I think but I just dont see alot of hitters keeping their front toe square to the plate til contact,my 1st 8 clips I looked at showed all hitters lead toe turning with hip initiation.However I do believe bonds did keep his much more square than most hitters,as well as Boggs,so their is some difference in style or mechanic there but I cant tell on your tht clips of the hitters with the writing in the way there on pedroia,appears the amateurs or some i saw keep it pretty square.
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