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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Message for Joe A.


Posted by: Joe A. () on Tue Sep 25 05:47:26 2001


>>> I have already stated one specific error on the frame-by-frame. The text of the frame by frame states that the torso, hipt and shoulders, turn at the same time. I have listed 4 specific reasons this is in error and that the hips are the first part of the torson that turns.
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> In a responde you stated that that I was "preaching to the choir" implying that you agreed with me that the hips turn first. But you also stated that you would add the words "in unison" to the text. I took this to mean that the hips and shoulders turn "in unison." In a response I clarified my position and asked for your response. I have not received one.
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> I await your reply. Joe A. <<<
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> Joe, it is quite obvious to anyone who has studied the baseball/softball swing that the hips are ahead of the shoulders or hands at the start of the swing. The hips leading the shoulders start well before the swing is initiated. In the Frame-by-Frame (Swing Mechanics) I wrote, “The batter has rotated (inward turn) his lead shoulders away from the pitcher.” So the hips already lead the shoulders by 20+ degrees as the batter prepares his launch position (look at Frame #B).
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> Frame #C shows that some (not all) batters develop even more separation during their stride. I stated, “The lead knee has started rotating around toward the pitcher;” (not all - after Barry Bonds' stride his lead knee still points more toward the plate than the pitcher). This means the hips now lead the shoulders by approximately 30 degrees. All of this occurred before the swing was fully initiated. From viewing the “Frame-by-Frame” section, everyone should see and understand that the hips lead the shoulders at the “start” of the swing. ---But we must also remember that at the “finish” of the swing, the shoulders will have rotated past (and now lead) the hips. And after full initiation, the hips and shoulders do rotate at the same time. When studying the swing in frame-by-frame motion, you can really see this happening.
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> I used the term “unison” to denote mechanics, where at initiation, all the muscles in the legs and torso are contracting in unison to drive shoulder rotation. This is to distinguish it from “sequential” mechanics where the batter first contacts the leg muscles to rotate the hip (while holding the shoulders back) and then later fire the torso muscles.
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> Note: There is a 3-stage type of mechanics being taught where the batter is taught to (1) stride, (2) use the leg muscles to fully rotate the hips while keeping the shoulders closed (3) fire the arm and torso muscles to bring the hands and rotate the shoulders. --- I refer to the hips rotating while keeping the shoulders closed (no load rotation) as “freewheeling.” For there to be a “kinetic chain” (or rubber-band effect) that continuously supplies energy from the ground upward to rotate the shoulders, all muscles in the legs and torso must be contracting in “unison,” not “sequentially.”
> --- Although all the muscles are contracting in unison, the hips will still open ahead of the shoulders due to the increased load of accelerating the upper-body mass and overcoming the inertia offered by the bat – not sequential timing.
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> Joe, you can either respond to this post or bring up the next of the “many errors” you claim to have found.
>
> Jack Mankin

Jack,

I will accept that "hips first" is what you meant to say. But, its not what you said. What you have just said is that there are many details throughout the text that when you add them up they mean "hips first." I assume this to mean that you agree that is was not stated as "hips first" in the text.

I think that "hips first" is one of the 4 most important mechanics of the swing and it can not be left unstated. I have learned that there are two methods of teaching hitting. One is the "contact" method. The other is the "power" method. In the contact method the amount of body movement is reduced to the least amount possibe so that contact is made. For example in the contact method the bat is swung directly to the ball from it's position in the stance.

In the contact method the torso is turned "in unison" to limit body movement and imporve the chances of contact. The hips and shoulders turn at the same time. Its really a little more then the "slap" swing used if softball for who knows what reason.

This method in fact does imporve contact but it has no power and hitters usually hit the ball to the same place. They tend to be easy outs hitting soft fly balls and easy grounders.


Hips first is vital to making hard contact. It is also a common mistake because it is hard to see with the naked eye so most coaches don't make a point of it to hitters. For this reason, it should not be something that someone has to "figure" out. It should be stated clearly.

Also, I don't think that the sum total of the various elements of the text does add up to "hips first." I didn't get that and I was looking for it.

I will point out and discuss the other errors and contradictions. But I do not want this particular discussion to get complicted by having posts that cover different issues.

Further, I have pointed out that the pictures in the frame by frame do not have shading for better debth perception and the camera angle seems to change to a higher level in the middle part of the swing. Don't think that they can be used to learn anything that is not clearly stated in the text. By the way, I have pointed out these concerns about the pictures in the frame by frame in the past with no responce.

Joe A.





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