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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: outside pitch

Posted by: rql () on Fri Feb 15 18:40:56 2002

Many of my h.s. hitters have been taught to push out at the o.s. pitch and let the barrel drag.Some can do this but they seem satisfied if they just hit it that way,many times not hard enough for a hit.I find that their hands are near the front of the plate and their barrel is near the back of plate.I have started doing straight toss and getting them to stay back and hit the back of the ball even with the lead knee.They swing just like it is inside but wait longer and have a little larger swing radius,just like getting a tighter swing radius on the inside corner pitch.They are finding that they more consistently hit the ball hard.My biggest problem is staying back and not getting fooled off speed.Any thoughts on how you can keep them back so I can compare to what I'm doing.
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> > > > > RQL-
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> > > > > I think you just need to keep working on having them hit this ball hard.This will be a much quicker swing to the ball than their old push swing,so it does take some adjusting,but that just comes from recognizing the location and trusting your mechanics.I think a key "feel" difference is an emphasis on extension for this location as opposed to turning on the ball for the inside location.The extension cue for outside location(even though extension happens after contact)is important to prevent decelerating("giving up on swing")before contact.The right kind of extension comes when "connection" of the front upper arm is maintained until after contact.
> > > > >
> > > > > The "wait on the ball" or "let it get deep cues" are a little risky because they are inaccurate.Torso turn (relative to the inside pitch)IS delayed,but this is made up for by more tht/Bathead "extension"(again relative to the inside/"L" still in back elbow mechanics).The desired contact point is still perpendicular to the pitch with maximum batspeed.So in any case make sure you don't encourage trying to push the contact spot back or disconnection of the front upper arm.
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> > > > > If you avoid these suboptimal cue interpretations,then lots of practice until it becomes automatic should improve the tendency to be early.Stick with it.
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> > > > >>Tom,I have found that my better hitters do not hit the dead back of the ball middle/in ,they hit the outside of it and pull it hard,however they hit it just at the front of plate or slightly forward.The key is they have the barrel a little ahead of hands.Now when they take the os pitch and hit it near the back corner of the plate to half way up to front corner then they really hit it hard up the middle.they have taken the same swing I believe just with more extension as you said,but it seems to me they have hit it further back as we see on the tee.Do you feel the middle in pitch is hit at the back of the ball perpendicular,if so how do we pull it.I feel the extension cue is good idea to stress but if they try to hit back of ball on inside they will jam won't they.Remember where Piazza hit his way inside fb in series,off the foul pole.Please expand on this if you have time.
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> > > RQL- this gets into the distinction between cues and reality and the necessity of keeping these two things straight in the mind of the coach.I personally find the cue of hitting the inside of the ball is usually helpful on all locations even though the reality I am looking for is usually hard hits fair to center or pull field for outside or in locations.You would know from playing pool that this means the ball is being hit square or on the outside in spite of what you may think you are doing(trying to hit the inside of the ball).Who knows why this works,and it may not for some.Getting the desired reality is what's important,not just adhering to the cue.
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> > > If there is an ongoing discrepency you must go to the videotape.First look for why the middle in pitch is getting pulled/hit around too much.Usually there is some form of early(at launch) disconnection or casting going on or look for no pull back/bht/hooking of the hand path.The kid is usually used to more of an arm swing that requires hitting the ball further out front(not enough turning of body with good connection) so that making contact with the sweetspot requires hitting the outside of the ball well in front of the plate giving too much of a dead pull.You may find it useful for them to think of where the barrel is in relation to the hands,I haven't used this swing thought much.The swing thoughts I prefer for inside are hit the inside of the ball,turn on the ball,pull back with the bottom hand and shade the head back.I don't worry about the fact that if they really hit the inside of the ball,it wouldn't be pulled.I do want to see a fair pulled field hard hit with elevation for the middle in pitch(Epstein/Williams-History is made on the inside of the plate).
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> > > The emphasis as the location moves outside is not letting the head shade back,hit the inside of the ball on the way to full extension.Don't let the front upper arm cast before contact.Then give them enough practice so they do these things more and more automatically while mentally associating the feel of each swing pattern with the cues?swing thoughts you have used.
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> > >>Tom,my guys don't have a problem with hitting the midle in pitch to far out front they seem to hit it right on the button from the front of plate to a few inches in front for pull.Their biggest problems seem to be staying back on off speed and trying to hit the o.s. pitch at front of plate or few inches forward,no difference of contact points.They get fooled with off speed since they have only 1 tempo and 1 pitch in mind.These kids are great bp hitters often hitting balls 380-400 feet but in games they get eat up on off speed and away.I have found that they hit the os corner pitch hard back up the middle and the contact point is further back than the middle in pitch.I am teaching your type of extension and agree with it,I tell them to be a little late than a little early.If my guys and me as well try tohit an inside pitch up the middle we go inside out and get jammed.I do teach look away react in.Read fb and [don't give up up and away] it may be curve for strike.I back them off the plte with 2 strikes about 3 inches so they can think up the middle away fb so they don't commit to it to early and get fooled on off speed.I do teach the pull back of lead hand and head back on really i.s. side pitches but myquest right now is to stay back walk away from upper body hit the back of the ball be a little late but rotate and get barrel on back of ball,trust hands inside.Know your situational hitting before you get in box and what pitch it well take to perform it.Know your strenght and your weakness to hedge when you have to,try to get the fat part of bat on ball and always try to take the pitchers head off with the ball with less than 2 strikes..
> Sounds good.Epstein says you can only cover half the zone with the full swing so start your swing but only finish execution if its what you are looking for.I would have to defer to his experience on that.I also think he has the best idea for shortening up mechanics in the 2-strike situation-open the stance(rotate body open/back foot closer to plate,front foot further away than usual square stance)and stay rotational.

>>Tom,Epstein did hit in the show and hit alot of homers but I don't think he ever was considered a consistent hitter[alot of strike outs]If your up in the count sure look your pitch but when behind youd better be able to cover the plate if you want to hit for an average.I would need to hear more on his 2 strike theory and why you open up,also wonder if he used it when he played.By the way how does his pinball theroy fit in with half the plate.Tim,Ilike the staying inside the ball idea and feel it does not hinder turning on the ball,but to me if I think hit the i.s. of the [ball] then I feel I go linear push to keep hands ahead of barrel or hit like Jeter when he gets jammed.So far my h.s. kids have produced by looking away hit the back of ball then react in get fat part of bat on ball and cover it.


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